Off the Agenda: Conversations for Building Church Leaders

Thanks Chris. Good Stuff.

Sorry, growing numbers without growing love does indeed make a church a large tupperware party. Nothing in the article says the new media communicates love. A voice, a touch, a listening ear...how do you do that in a blog?

I'm particularly struck by his comment regarding the need for churches "to concentrate on what's remarkable and interesting and noteworthy and touches my faith, and stop spending time on tasks that don't amplify any of those elements." When I walk into church each Sunday morning, I know we have three songs of worship, we sit for the opening prayer, there's the children's sermon, then announcements, then prayer, then scripture reading, then offering, and then the sermon. I wonder what church could become if the emphasis was on building an atmosphere of worship, and not sticking to the routine that's probably been in place for more than 10 years.

This is similar thinking--though more crassly stated--than the seeker-sensitive model that Willow Creek pioneered and recently pronounced a failure. The Great Commission is to make disciples, not sales. Discipleship can't happen without repentance, and repentance is antithetical to the "cater to me" mentality we are told to accommodate.

If we buy into the idea that "church is a business" we've lost the plot completely. It's utter nonsense. It never has nor will ever have anything to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ in anyway at anytime in any place or culture. Here's the reason why -

There is one God creator of heaven and earth, God the Son manifest Himself in the flesh, laid down His life down on the cross for mankind and physically rose from the dead on the third day, ascended to the right hand and has all power and authority in heaven and earth. THAT'S REALITY!

Grace and truth have come to us through Jesus Christ not some kind of business transaction or quid pro quo deal with God! The human family are called to die to self and be united with Jesus Christ in baptism. Taking up the cross and following Christ. Central to the good news is an abandoned, brutalized and abused Savior nailed to a piece of wood. Christ calls all men to lay down their lives in love and join Him in His suffering to redeem mankind -

How in the world do you market a bloody abused, mocked and spat on crucified Christ calling us to live crucified lives? What idiot would buy/purchase/exchange anything for the cross? Have you ever heard of anything more ridiculous?

But here's the clincher this is the peach amongst this utter drivel this statement - "I'd say you need to concentrate on what's remarkable and interesting and noteworthy and touches my faith". Remarkable? Interesting? Noteworthy? Touches my faith? God exists, God walked amongst us God died for us and His resurrection from the dead proclaimed the end of sin, death and evil - I'd say that's kinda interesting...you?

www.allaboutchrist.net

Kevin, Ian,

I think you're slightly missing the point. This isn't about making the church style more business-like--it's about recognizing the very meaningful ways some businesses have connected with people (creating experiences, rather than buyer/seller transactions), and realizing that churches would do well to focus on becoming a place of worship (i.e. spending time there, connecting with God, helping attenders develop a sense of reverence) rather than a place to "do" church (i.e. we have a program, we go through the motions, we do worship during this part, a sermon during this part, then you go home).

Matt

I think it is very important to remember that people outside of the faith do not necessarily know what's so exciting about life in Jesus Christ. The "Seeker Sensitive" emphasis got us thinking about how we present ourselves to people who are seeking God, but are unfamiliar with or turned off by some of our customs and terminology. I wonder if we should look at ways of attracting the Christianity - averse or - antagonistic, or - apathetic who likewise need God's saving grace. I dare say the results may be slower (as in a "closed" mission field) or our approach would be radically different. I have often wondered whether the "salesmanship" model best describes the sharing of the gospel, or should it be more relational, or family dynamic, or... I think the answer is in all of these, and not. Thank you for the discussion, because we need to think outside the box - because that is where the lost are - outside of our box.

Man, are some of you folks getting hung up on semantics. Anytime the words "church" and "marketing" are used in the same sentence you freak and fire up your text editors.

The point here, imho, is that there are new ways to effectively communicate the truth of the gospel that need to be considered and even embraced. But no one is saying that when a church starts a blog that they are going to stop loving people. You don't do one and not the other - you do both!

If it will help, stop using the word "marketing" and replace it with "connecting," or "communicating." Honest marketing is simply telling a compelling story in a compelling way. Honest evangelism is simply telling the most compelling story in a compelling way.

Matt, Paul and Randy,

I applaud you for your comments!! If we want to reach the lost we must connect with them where they are at and in a manner they will hear. It truly must compel them in some way in order to draw them. Then they are open to hear the message and are available to be loved and nurtured by God through His body, the church.