Off the Agenda: Conversations for Building Church Leaders

If you are having problems yourself, check out this online course in purity.

It is purely off scripture with an online accountability buddy.

www.settingcaptivesfree.com and look for the purity course.

You can just try one day and see if you like it. It will make a difference!

Tim,

I hope you write a follow-up article that considers all the ways that this study's findings are horribly flawed and do not even begin to support the underlying charge of "Hypocrisy!" that is fueling its visibility.

www.getreligion.org/?p=8408

I'm not surprised. I know all too many Christians who view porn. It doesn't shock me anymore. How sad is that?

Brett,
Thanks for the link. GetReligion does good work, and it's too bad that I missed that post.
I have to admit that my initial reaction to the study was like that of "anonymous." There are a lot of nominal Christians out there, and there are also a lot of genuine Christians who struggle with this. But it looks as though this study isn't as conclusive as it claims.

There is a general absence of the reventual fear of God. The total application of Phil. 2: 12-13. The purging, cleansing, purning of John 15; 1 John 1:9.

To what extent of what Detric Bonhofer called "cheap grace" being presented?

According to the records of Billy Grahm's group - 80 percent of those that attend church have no relationship Jesus Christ.

I think if the church engaged it's members in healthy wholesome discussions on sex and sexuality, instead of relagating it to a sunday morning" hot topic' forbidden message,perhaps the "forbidden"-fruit of porn, wouldn't have such mass appeal. It seems that when there is a fall from grace due to sexual misconduct ,this is the only time sexual issues are discussed within the church body , and even then, most of the discussion is framed by reproof and denial.

What does this study really prove? That there are many out there with this addiction that are symptoms of a greater need inside... Jesus said come unto me all who are weary and heavey laden, and i will give you rest... Looks like the churches aren't preaching the Word that will set them free... Or maybe the leader might be caught in this themselves too... I pray that God will set them all free and lead them to ones that can truely walk with them to real freedom, aren't we supposed to help each other and carry each others burdens, lets be open to help and not be so easy to condemn those who are stuck in things the of the world... maybe if they could really feel the Love of Christ from the christians; they could feel safe to open up and get set free from the real reason the look at the things like that... They will know we are christians by our love, not our condemnation and judgement, he who has no sin can throw the first stone...

There is another site called xxxchurch.com. It bills itself as "The #1 Christian Port Site," with the obvious goal of attracting the attention of someone trolling for this stuff.

It is actually a place to go for help with the problem. They target consumers as well as those in the industry and they have a lot of information and tool available.

Last year I attended a seminar on how to deal with porn in the church. It is a real addiction that both MEN and WOMEN in the church are struggling with. There has to be a strong desire from a believer who is struggling with this addiction to want to break it. I believe it starts with admitting it is a sin, confessing it to God and having someone(s) to hold you accountable on a regular basis. Scripture tells us in Jeremiah 32:27 "Behold I am the Lord the God of all flesh: Is there any thing too hard for me?"

Is this study horribly skewed, by checking zip codes you cannot tell anything at all. I am sure that there are Christians who veiw porn however to make a blanket distinction by a flawed report like this is to use whatever data to prove your point. There is a giant gap of believability in this study. The way it was presented there is no way that you can tell if it was a Christian or non Christian as to who is doing what. I feel that if there is going to be a report like this that more accurate precise studies be done otherwise why bother! I know that there are many Christian recovery programs that have much more accurate data than this study.

I think that raising the issue of pornography in the church is important, but I agree that the stats used to support this are bogus. Maybe this will prompt someone to do a proper scientific study on this.

This is crazy and very sad. Pornography, whether it costs money or free, is something that knows no prejudice. I am a Christian who has fallen victim way too many times to it, and it takes more than thinking we are simply in control. It's hard not to judge other Christians who fall into this but we all fall short. Like Tim said, the most genuine Christians deal with these things, just the same. Nothing makes it right, though. I continue to pray for others and myself and for strength to continue walking the harder road, the one Christ set out for us.
It's never okay, and kids are getting into it more and more. The first time I ever saw it, it was completely and totally on accident. It isn't the church's fault for the individual's sexual impurity, but there still is no reason for the church to avoid addressing it. We have to help each other. Zach, I will check out the website you posted. Thank you!

As the church becomes more ambivalent towards sex, hetro and homo, is it any wonder that church members begin to ask themselves whether there is any clearly defined church stance on things sexual, including pornography, and allow their inclinations free-rein?

Brothers,

We need to surround all our Brothers (and Sisters) in prayer and to pray for this darkness to leave their homes and especially their hearts.

As part of the men's leadership team at my Church it is my responsibility to make sure all men know the dangers of this ugliness by providing classes, seminars (Iron Sharpen Iron), conferences (Men at the Cross, PK) and most of all remind them W.W.J.D. When you tell them or remind them that HE is sitting right next to you when you are choosing that site or that movie on TV it is a BIG eye opener.

I will continue to pray for all of you to do the same and surrond your Brothers at your home Church and your community and encourge them to attend one or all of the above conferences, seminars and classes.

After all if you want to be a BETTER man of GOD you need to do this for them and for what HE has commanded you to do.

Have a great and BLESSED day.

Love-Your Brother in Christ,

Michael

Whether or not the study is accurate or some trumped up "op/ed" piece masquerading as scientific inquiry, the reality is that (1) in general, Christian morality (i.e., the visible moral fruit of internally-held convictions) does not differ greatly from the morality of the unchurched; and (2) too many Christian men (and, if other reports are accurate, Christian women) find themselves in bondage to internet porn. Let's stop quibbling and let's start providing these dear people who live with such a sense of shame and guilt. It was for freedom that Christ has set us free (from legalism and from licentious living).

"thanks to the Internet, now 'every city is Sin City'."
This is a troubling statement in my humble opinion. I would just like to make the point that it is not the Internet that is the problem here. The Internet is also full of good information and is a wonderful witnessing tool. It is the corrupt state of the unrepentant human heart that is the problem. If they don't find it on the Internet, they will find it someplace else... easily.

There is a huge problem with Christians and porn, but I am not comfortable relying on this particular study to prove it. For one, the methodological problems with this study have been well-documented (even if not well publicized). For another, reasonable alternative interpretations for the data exist. Perhaps porn subscriptions in "religious" states are higher because that is the only avenue available to porn users, as those states would be more likely to restrict local outlets such as adult bookstores and theaters.

I think that those christians watching porn are not yet born again.
For 2 main reasons
1- A real christain will think of what Jesus said about adultry before behaving so.the one who gazes lustfully at a lady has already made love with her.
2-Porn actors are God's creature and are supposed to perform one important aspect of God's plan for humanity: marriage and procreation.But these actors are blinded by porn sin.They think they they can do whatever they want with their sacred bodies.
Otherwise they would have known that the same way porn praising christians don't want anybody else watching them performing this intimate act,they wouldn't dn't lust watching anyonelse's doing so.
Jesus said : whatever you want others do to you ,do the same to them.
Let's pray for porn actors and mainly for our brothers encouraging them doing it by paying for their movies.

DIBO Mathieu , Cote d'Ivoire,West Africa.

Porn addiction is a major problem in the church -especially by so many in leadership, we must come out of denial. So why don't you hear preaching about this and sexual purity issues? Because of fear and guilt and hidden demonic bondages. Can someone who is trapped in this bondage come to your church and find the power of the Holy Spirit manifested there to be delivered from demons, sin and iniquity and then go on to become a true disciple of Jesus Christ? Because of the proliferation of internet porn, even missionaries are struggling to resist it's temptation and persistence. Satan strategizes against us in our wounedness to present porn as a hidden opiate. It's highly addictive because it triggers a powerful (hormonal) drug high in us - most people don't discern this aspect. If you want freedom you must openly confess it as a sin (James!) - you must take your stand (Eph. 6) - you must cast out the demons - you must become transparent and accountable - you must use your internet in public view (no more hidden internet access) - you must forgive others and receive inner healing for your woundedness and iniquities - Worship!
www.greatbiblestudy.com

I would like to make a few points in response.

First, I agree, having looked at both articles, that the first article is biased and unscientific in its approach. It also doesn't indicate those Christians who have a problem here and fall into temptation while trying to overcome it.

Second, I cannot help but say I have issues with DIBO Mathieu's post that those viewing porn are not "born again". That seems like a very judgmental accusation and does not take into consideration that Christians still struggle with sin. May I remind you that Jesus said "take the log out of your own eye". We need to care for those who struggle in this area and not simply be judgmental about this

Thirdly, for those struggling, I find that the safe eyes application www.safeeyes.com, is a good application to keep one from viewing it. But also one must ask, as I was challenged recently, what is the reason that one is succumbing to this. Often for men it is the result of boredom and this becomes something that they fall into to remedy that. Therefore, ask what is it that is driving you to this and whether there is something that could capture your attention and help to overcome those desires.

In all this I want to remind those that struggle in this area that God still loves them and he is still open to those who repent and come back and seek him.

I have no doubt that sexual immorality (impurity) exists among people who call themselves followers of Christ, but I am very concerned that an organization such as Christianity Today would run an article such as this without (it would appear) checking all the facts first. Did the editors actually read the "Study"?
Is Christianity Today sinking to the depths of the Tabloid magazines to get readers?
David Williams
Minister
Burlington, Colorado

Regardless of the accuracy of this study, from sermons I have heard on conservative Christian radio (like Bott Radio), it IS a real problem among Christians. And I would say that part of the problem in the "zip code' is down here in the South it is kind of looked down on NOT to go to church on Sunday. So I think that can be revealing that a lot of people go to church because it is expected, not because they truly believe. I have a friend from the North and she notices this down here. She says people ask you so many more intrusive questions about your faith (she is a lapsed Roman Catholic), and she has been quite surprised at the pressure she has down here to go to church (from people of all faiths). So all this would make sense with the zip codes in our "church on every corner" city. But even with this, still it is a problem. And as far as porn in every home, yes. It is MUCH easier for kids to accidentally view porn and get hooked than in the past. Even if you have good computer guards, that doesn't mean their friends will. Even if they attend a Christian school like my daughter. And porn can be addicting, and from the sermons I have heard it is hard to quit. Rather than sounding so judgemental, we ought to pray and support those trying to get out of it.

I agree with Maryanne Morris' comment.
Just to add on it, today's church is not realy concerned about holiness. We all have weakness this way or another. I'm not trying to put myself above the grace of God. But we Christians need a real teaching about the Gospel of Jesus Christ as is without softening it by uttering politically correct jokes and terms.
We're in desperate situation. Our preachers are concerned on entertaining the believers and so priortize the number in the church. Today's church is evaluated by the #of believers not by the standard of the Gospel. Look what the power of the church is today. It doesn't have a big influence on the society. The weakest church is the church who is not admitting sin. Repentance is an old term now a days. The power of God is diminished due to our sin. Let's all pray for the power and conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Ok the author of this article wins the prize for the most ridiculous waste of time ever. Really? You conclusions about the exposure of porn to Christ followers is based on a regional observation of areas based on zip code...and from that you can determine that there is a greater likelyhood that the mix within that region reflects more pron usage than in other areas or demographics? The only usable sentence in the whole piece is the final one. BTW Tim most of you online based statistics for where people are is somewhat flawed as well...the zip codes for IP addresses are based on the ISP location not the user's location. There are certainly other determining factors for the disturbing and destructive nature of porn both inside and outside the church. You do a disserve to the cause when you're so loose with the research in support of what is likely a very true situation; allowing some to dismiss the entire concept.

Lorrie,
I agree that the heart of the problem is, well, our hearts and their sinfulness. Every city has always been sinful. However, the Internet does make porn that much easier to find, and anonymity that much easier to keep.

David,
I did look at the study. And since writing this post, I've seen a lot of the conversation about what conclusions you can actually draw from it. I think GetReligion makes a very strong critique (which is why I linked to it once I was referred to it), but, and maybe I'm naive, I'm not sure that regional trends tell you nothing. I still find the results at least a little surprising.

Greg,
The zip codes used in the study came from the subscribers' credit cards, not their IP addresses. But yes, the bigger issue is: what can you infer from a zip code? I think it's at least worth thinking about.

Peter Wagner's "International Coalition of Apostles" claims over 500 "recognized" Apostles. Peter Wanger's influence reaches every major "mega" church in the U.S. and many around the world.

The organizational and governing bodies of the Peter Wagner enterprises are rife with sexual deviates. Paul Cain, Peter Wagner "master" prophet was exposed by his friends as a life long homosexual and drunk. Ted Haggard, former head of NAE and partner with Peter Wagner in the World Prayer Center which housed The Wagner Leadership Institute, is now a confessed drug user and homosexual.

Roberts Lairdon, one of the original Round Table of Apostles was having a homosexual affair with his youth pastor. He left the pulpit for a 90 day "restoration" period. He is now in full time "ministry."

Peter Wagner and his group recently "aligned" Todd Bentley with the ICA while Todd Bentley was conducting a revival at Ignited Church in Lakeland, Florida. The revival ended abruptly when Todd was exposed in a sexualy illicit affair with a woman member of his staff. Todd as since divorced and has married his partner in sin.

Peter Wagner "apostles" Lee Grady and Steve Strang of Charisma Magazine were partners in the Lakeland Revival charade and cover-up of Todd Bentley and only came clean when the offering plates stopped running over and the rats started to jump ship.

This list is almost endless. The hour of apostasy engulfs what the world sees as "Christianity" and there is almost NO voice willing to confront the Satanic asaults on the church.

Tim, sorry I do not agree with your comment, "the church has a long to go"; referring on correcting or adjusting the use of porn viewing by members.....I believe that those Christians have a long way to go in examining their priorities....do they worship idols, i.e., money, power, porn, etc., or totally worship the one God, our Father? ....yes the churchs' Pastors will hopefully be able to help turn certain thoughts around, but certain Christians will have to be open to start an overview of their desires and admit that a correction is needed and remember God knows what is in their heart.

For the most part the local churches in America have been silent on this "taboo" topic. The truth of the matter is that half if not more than half of the men in our churches struggle with pornography or some other form of sexual sin. The problem with pornography is not just a man issue either. Surveys indicate that perhaps as many as 20% of women in our churches struggle with pornography as well. This is a cancer that is destroying the lives of men, women and families, I know because it nearly destroyed mine. There are many tools and resources that are easily accessible and readily available for addressing this issue. One such resource is the CD/DVD titled 'Somebody's Daughter". This CD changed my life. It's available at www.somebodysdaughter.org

Many Christians are addicted to either porn or drugs or alchohol.
The sad part is that they attend good Bible believing churches.
Unless churches do not start looking at these addictions as demonic influences and cast them out, many Christians will continue to suffer.
Jesus delivered people before he saved them, we save people before we deliver them.

For those of you looking for help with this addiction, go to NEWLIFE.COM and check out the best selling book EveryMan's Battle. They also have intensive weekend conferences for porn addition and many other topics. They are a terrific bunch of people and they also host a call-in radio show M - F.

I agree to a great extent with most of the comments raised concerning this issue. However I have a slightly different view. They often say that evil thrive when good people do nothing. I got married 11years ago and I can tell u that in our part of the world nobody teaches you anything about sex in marriage. I once admonished the people in church concerning the need for "older women to teach the young ones how to love their husbands" The question today is the lack of care for others. At a point I had to resort into reading as many books I can find (internet is still a luxury here) because I had a desire to please my wife sexually. but I find it so difficult to get needed information. My advice is let us stop blaming and start doing something positive to help our brethren who are overtaken by this addiction. Lets create a christian alternative, as we bring out christian ways of relating in marriage, probably spiced up with a bit of "action" - the biblical way, I believe a lot of.people will be helped out of this porn menace. Lets not also underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit to help in times like this. The desire of our Lord is to come for a church that is without spot or wrinkles
We will surely make it to heaven together in Jesus Name. Amen
Thank you keep being your brother's keeper..

This is irresponsible science. It looks like the fellow who did this study is out to hang the old "hypocrite" label on the church. I would have thought a Harvard Business School professor would know something about research, scientifically gathering data and reporting statistics... which makes me all the more suspicious of his motives. Just because there is less porn purchased on Sunday does not necessarily point out that Christians are looking at the same amount of porn as everyone else. Nor can you draw such specific conclusions about a narrow demographic from such nebulous data. Using this same model, you could also draw the conclusion that professional football hot dog vendors look at the same amount of porn as the rest of the world, except on Sunday because they can't sell hot dogs on at the game and be on the computer at the same time. His findings are equally absurd! It appears his bias supports his conclusions.

I think this report definitely goes to show how the "form of religion" without real transformation from Christ is no better than the world.

The report also showed more porn subscription in places that have higher measures of social capital (i.e. more people who donate blood, engage in volunteer activities, or participate in community projects) and that have enacted conservative legislation on sexuality (such as ?defense of marriage? amendments) or have conservative positions on religion, gender roles, and sexuality.

On top of that the report didn't report anything about the abundance of free porn seen online:

http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2009/01/19/how-much-free-porn-is-online/

Yes the study may be flawed, but men, including Christians, deal with lust on a daily basis. Porn destroys relationships and lives, and free porn is a problem not addressed in the study.

A fantastic accountability tool can be found at (www.covenanteyes.com). Having accountability partners, practicing spiritual disciplines and disconnecting from media are all helpful tools in the battle for sexual purity.

America is the leading exporter of porn in the world; God bless America?

I am a born-again Christian who got saved in 1984, a very long time ago. I did street evangelism work in Cape Town and I have taken part in Christian Action protests against abortion and pornography. I was freed from alcohol and cigarettes the moment I was convicted that it was sin. Somehow I never stopped masturbating. Why?

I have bought about 5 Penthouse magazines. I started watching porn on the internet a few years ago and do so at least once a week. Porn have almost detroyed my job and marriage and 3 beautifuI children. I have started the settingthecaptives free course 3 times over. It's easy to stop for a few days, but then I do it again.

I have long ago started doubting my salvation and I am useless to work for the Lord. I hate this sin and I hate myself for doing this to my prescious Saviour and my family.

Louis,
Just remember that JESUS died for ALL your sins past ,present and future. Your debt has been paid in full. You are stil a christian. Did you think that just because you became a christian that your life would become sinless? I too have been freed from some sin and some remains. We are all going to die as sinners and sinning. But the good news is i'm going to heaven because of what jesus did for me. Porno is what I think is the strongest adiction to man. Believe me I know. It's very powerful. Mabey the thrill of the orgasm is the adiction not really the porno. Is an orgasm really worth all your guilt and shame? You say it is effecting your family. If you are married make it a point to only have an orgasm with your wife not a picture or a movie. I hope this helps you in some way.
Don't be so hard on yourself but keep on fighting the need to have an orgasm so frequently. It's not ALL that important, really! You will see. If you find it hard to be stimulated enough to have an orgasm try new things with your wife and give it alot of time. That's how I beat this adiction, also with the help of JESUS. OH! excerise makes it alot easyer to achive arousal to have an orgasm and no need on porno. Masterbation is not a sin if done with your wife. But never let it take over intercourse with her. If your not married thats a whole different issue.

May the former Confederacy seek the Good Lord's kind of freedom from indulging in phone sex and pornography!!!

Hello,
I know all too many Christians. I'm not surprised. I want to more information about this. Thank you so much...