Off the Agenda: Conversations for Building Church Leaders

I agree that there is not a shortage of pastors, but it is hard to find a good fit. We just concluded a pastor search at my church. It was a grueling 18 months of searching for "the right one". I think for a small church (we are about 100 members) our pastor needed to be administrator as well as pastor. I think for a church that gets over 200 in size, your pastor cannot do both jobs well.

Our former pastor went into administration at a large church. His gift was administration and preaching, but not as gifted in outreach and one-on-one ministry. This new job suits him well. However we needed to find a pastor that had strengths where the past one had weaknesses.

We learned how to do the administrative stuff pretty well during the interim period. What we cannot do well as a congregation is outreach and visionary planning. We need a strong pastor who can move us out of our comfort zone and do the 'hard work of the Lord'. I believe we found that person, but it was a tough task as we were "picky" and the Lord closed many doors before we found this one.

I don't see the pastor/CEO model any where in scripture. Maybe if churches got back to a biblical model there wouldn't be a shortage of "pastors."

As a confessional Presbyterian my vision for local church is a plurality of elders with a teaching and rulling elders. Let the rulling elders take the main burden of administration (giving responsibility to deacons if needed) and the teaching elder (pastor) focus on preaching, organizing family visits, and study. Any other projects are by his own free choice. The church must get away from a ceo model and if a church wants me (a future seminarian) to be a ceo for them to take every phone call whenever they want I just won't go there. The main job of a pastor is to preach not to do these other things. Richard Baxter's the reformed pastor is an excellent book on this subjet.

I think Joseph and Hal are right, and Dawn's church is onto something. Pastors/elders (used interchangeably in the New Testament) are first of all teachers. When you get down to it, none of the leadership positions in the NT church aside from deacons seem to imply administrative ability--not apostle, nor prophet, nor evangelist. The pastoral administrative duties given to Timothy are a minimum: take care of the distribution needs of widows and orphans, appoint qualified and trustworthy elders and deacons. The focus is on proclaiming and teaching.

So: should we count administrators as "pastors" or as "deacons"? Or is it splitting hairs? Personally, I feel loathe to redefine Paul's terms for him.

Hi..I am currently a pastor for a small country church. At 47yo my career history also included owning/running a small business operating in a number of states. I am also a seminary graduate have done international missions work and worked domestically with the BGEA Rapid Response Teams. I offer all this because I have often applied to churches struglling with the multitide of issues created from a lack of balance between a call to the ministry and ability to run an organization.

Too often churches, esp. small churches ignore secular background precluding a blessed opportunity to have talents which all too often are lacking in church organizations.

As far as mega churches... the problem with mega churches is that they are mega churches. Pastor's pastor.... teachers teach.

Here is the real problem... pastors themselves have their own intimacy issues so they choose to be teachers of the Word rather than spiritual shepherds.

If you dont know your congregation by first name... then maybe its too big a church.

The pastor's essential job is to prepare God's people for works of service so that the church may be built up. Leadership, preaching, developing new leaders, strategic planning, may all be a part of that.

I don't know who originated this quote but it's a good one

"You lead people and manage systems."

As groundbreaking as it may seem, you CAN have a great communicator of God's truth who may not be strong at organizational leadership.

Once you realize that, it opens up all kinds of possibilities for the church. That is the primary premise behind a lot of video campus churches that have local pastors for leadership but use nationally known gifted communicators for their messages. The pastor is freed up from developing sermons all the time to focusing on the people themselves.

Everyone on here has posted something meaningful, and I concur with most of the sentiments expressed. However I feel compelled to reiterate an earlier reference to the roles of Deacon and Pastor as expunged in the New Testament.

In short the reason Deacons were 'formed/created' was to run administrative tasks for the Apostles, leaving Peter and the rest of the Twelve free to do the work of preaching and teaching. I find it hard to believe that a church won't have at least one or two qualified members with backgrounds in business or management who can't donate a few evenings each week.

If the churches claim their qualified personnel have no time for this, then maybe we need to preach less on getting better pastors and instead on getting better Christians in the pews. So in the end the emphasis goes from pastors to the people themselves... how ironic.

I have been studying for the past four years on the order and organization of the church or the body of Christ as the Lord has directed me to do so. I can tell you this that without the proper implementation of the order that is within the word of God any church will struggle in one area or another. The Lord led me last year to give a shepherds conference in Texas. The morning before the meeting the Lord awoke me and gave me specific instructions for the pastors as to His will for their ministries. He began with to tend to His sheep gently, Teach them My will, and so on. The shepherds position should be to teach to be in prayer and supplication for the congregation. It is very clear as to the who is to take on he administration duties within the body. One of the gifts that are imparted by the Holy Spirit is the gift of administration. This of course is imparted to an individual of God's choice not mans. Each and every church is supposed to be founded with upon the apostolic and prophetic ministries overseeing them. If not they are out of order. The Lord is leading my wife and I to pastor a church this after some years of traveling and ministering full time. As we are led to apply for pastor positions what we have found is that the majority of churches are looking for management guru's and not spiritual leadership. They want the pastor to gel within their system and not in accordance with the leading of the Holy Spirit. My wife and I have been led by the Holy Spirit for the past few years and He has never made a mistake.
It is time for those that are being en trusted with the task of finding a pastor for their perspective ministries on their knees in fasting and prayer. They should not leave it solely on the basis of someones resume.

Dr. Almodovar

In the list of qualifications for bishops in Titus and I Timothy, all of the qualifications are character qualities, not spiritual gifts except for the following: "able to teach" and (arguably) "hospitable" (I Tim 3:2)

Some might argue that the phrase "for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?" in I Tim. 3:5 implies the gift of administration. However, in this case the "managing one's house" is simply requiring what every person who is a husband and father is required to do. I would argue that this is a character issue rather than an added "spiritual gift."

Note, also that if you exclude the "sign gifts" most (perhaps, all) of the spiritual gifts listed in Scripture include qualities that are required of all Christians to a certain degree as a matter of obedience and character. For example all Christians are commanded to be hospitable, helpful, to teach and exhort one another, to give, yet the Scripture clearly teaches that there are certain people with gifts of hospitality, helps, teaching, exhortation, and giving. The obvious inference is that some Christians are specially equipped with an unusual ability in these areas.

Now, to put this all together: Nowhere is administration called out as a gift that is required of a pastor. However, everyone is required to nurture at least enough administrative ability to, for example, manage their own time, their own children (if parents), etc. This doesn't require the "gift of administration," it requires character.

Whether "hospitality" implies that someone is hospitable to the point that we would say they have "the gift of hospitality" is arguable. Certainly, though, its inclusion guards against someone who has the ability to teach, but reclusive. (Since all are commanded to be hospitable elsewhere in the NT, someone who is characterized by reclusiveness is disobeying God--even if they are introverted by nature.)

I am a Pastor looking for a church, please contact me at my email address: revmike_26@yahoo.com. and we can talk about the position that you have open.

I am in love with the word of God and I love to teach and to preach the Word. We need to stand togther and not turn back. We need to contend for the faith. We are to stand in one mind and one spirit for the love of Christ and be what we the church are to be-- the body; going forth with the power of Jesus, touching their lives with the love of God. Many are called, but few are chosen, and I know that I am chosen.

In Christ,

Shane